Inspirations

CHARLIE ROSE:  Eike Batista is here.  He is the richest person in 
Brazil.  He may very well become the richest person in the world because of 
his oil holdings off the coast of Brazil.  He has vast holdings in a number 
of businesses in Brazil.  

	It is an interesting time to talk about him, to talk about Rio de 
Janeiro, the place that he loves, and also to talk about the Latin-American 
experience.  I’m pleased to have him here for the first time.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Thank you, Charlie.  Thank you for having me.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Now, 15 years from now, what is it you want to have 
achieved?

	EIKE BATISTA:  We have created a base through our different companies 
-- oil being the biggest one -- to basically have a ten-year growth 
history.  This is quite unique.  The main reason for it is that because we 
found rich oil fields, rich and big oil fields.  So they will help us 
basically to create a ten-year growth story, which is very unique.  

	I think by 2020, Brazil -- you know, actually the president is saying 
this, and we believe that by 2015 already Brazil should be the fifth-
largest economy in the world.  And we’re just one of the many companies 
that is helping Brazil grow.  

	And obviously, the oil discoveries are so big that will make a big 
change.  They would make a big change to any country.  We’re talking about 
a hundred billion barrels of recoverable oil.  This is the potential for 
the different Brazilian oil bases.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Is most of that oil going to come from the deep end of 
it or more shallow end?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  I think one of the different things in our company is 
that 85 percent in our case is from shelf oil, so no technology.  Shelf 
technology, as I like to call it, $8 lifting cost oil.  So this is really 
profitable oil production.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Let me go back now.  Your father is a very 
distinguished Brazilian.  He ran -- head of mining, I think, in Brazil, 
government job.  You received your education in Germany.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  Basically up to my 12th year I was educated in 
Brazil.  Then up to my 22nd year of age I spent in Europe, basically, 
following my father, who back then was internationalizing CVRD, he was 
creating the offshore offices for the company.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You went to college there.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  And studied metallurgy.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  What influence did he have on you and does he continue 
to have on you?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  What my father taught me, what I learned from him, is 
to think big, because he built -- there’s a movie in Brazil called 
"Brazil’s engineer," and it’s about hi, because he builds part of Brazil’s 
macro-infrastructure -- railways, super-ports to iron ore to Asia, back 
then to Japan.  And so I learned to think.

	But I was educated by my educated by my mother, because my father back 
then as a government officer, he was very busy and not much with us.  I’m 
one of seven children, the second.

	And so my mother taught me discipline -- she was German, from Hamburg 
-- and so she taught be discipline and care, caring for others, which is 
very much what I got from here, which forged me in many ways.
	
	CHARLIE ROSE:  You went back to Brazil, and at age 23 you started out 
with a goldmine on the Amazon.

	EIKE BATISTA:  That’s right.  Actually when I joined my studies, my 
father came back Brazil and I was left alone in Europe with my oldest 
brother.  And I initially had to cope with my monthly costs, I had to sell 
insurance policies from door to door.

	But this was a great experience, because I went through stress.  I 
would say as a middle-class educated, middle-class family, I think it’s 
very important for young people to suffer a little bit.  And this stress, 
you know, having to make up for my monthly costs was a great experience, 
and this forged my also because if my father would have taken care of me, 
like they always have, up to my 18th year, I don’t think I would have been, 
you know...  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  As tough as you became?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  Yes.  It was a different seed that was planted in 
me.  And I see this in lots of friends of mine in Brazil who educate their 
children giving them everything or making it too easy.  So, you know, in my 
education this stress was very important.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  This provides a great challenge for you because, as you 
know, the speculation is with your oil holdings you may very well-being 
become the richest person in the world.  You have two sons?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Two sons, yes.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  How are you going to make sure they have the same drive 
that you do?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Well, they’re going to have to go through stress also.  
It’s vital for them.  A year ago, my oldest son, I sent them to work in a 
garage.  And at night he came home and said "Daddy, it’s very hot under a 
car." Right, well, you have to go through this.  Otherwise you won’t occupy 
the position of your father.  I tell them to concentrate.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You also early on had an entrepreneurial instinct.  You 
wanted to own those gold mines that you bought.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  What was that about?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  You know, when I came back down to Brazil, I learned 
that the gold rush was going on in the Amazon basin, lots of pick-and-
shovel mines like in the old Wild West in the United States, California and 
Alaska.  

	And initially I started a trading company to buy the gold and sell it.  
In this process which took a year and a half I bought and sold $16 million 
worth of gold and made a 10 percent margin, a net.  So there I was at 23 
with $6 million in my hand.

	And margins were going down because competition started to come in, 
other traders came into the zone.  I said, listen, I have to reinvent 
myself.  

	So with my technical background, I decided why not buy one of these 
rich pick-and-shovel operations and mechanize it?  That’s why in 1983 I had 
Brazil’s first alluvial mechanized gold mine running in the Amazon jungle.  

	And I like to say that I was lucky.  I had obviously underestimated 
the weather, technical conditions, diseases, logistics, you know?  But 
ultimately the mine was so rich, and I still like to remember it was idiot-
proof because it survived all my mistakes.  

	And I ended up -- when it started to run I ended up making a million 
dollars a month.  So my six -- I was down -- the $6 million I had, I was 
down to $300,000.  I remember thinking I should have gone to the beach, you 
know.  

	(LAUGHTER)

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Yes.  But the moral of this story is if you’re going to 
take a risk, make sure you know the difficulties, but also make sure that 
the payoff at the end that’s possible is rich enough to justify...  

	EIKE BATISTA:  All the risks.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  All of the risks and all of the problems.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  And this is a lesson that I learned only work with 
world-class assets, rich assets that can afford mistakes -- mistakes, 
delays.  This is very much the culture of the group.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  I don’t want to skip ahead to oil, but is that the same 
principle...  When it time for an auction on the oil exploration off the 
shore of Brazil and you went in with great risk, was it the same principle?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  The same principle, but, you know, over time you learn 
that knowledge is important.  So we’re fortunate to hire a great team of 
executives from Petrobras who were the men who had great knowledge.

	CHARLIE ROSE:  The Brazilian state oil company.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes -- who was so successful in finding oil in the 
Brazilian basins.  

	What I did, which was unique, was put up $1.3 billion to participate 
in the auction and risk, because each well cost $40 million, and this risk 
concept comes from my first adventure in gold. 

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Right, but there were stops along the way which are 
interesting.  You then went to, I guess, Toronto -- what’s the name of 
the...  

	EIKE BATISTA:  EBX.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Ups and downs.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Gold cycle.  When gold was up I was in Switzerland, 
when gold was down I was in Bangladesh.  

	(LAUGHTER)

	I had three cycles like this.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  So you made a lot of money, you lost a lot of money.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Overall, would you consider that a success?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes, because I built eight gold mines between 1980 and 
the year 2000 around the world, five in Brazil, one big one in Chile, and 
two in Canada.  The South American mines are still running.  So great 
successes.  

	The mine in Chile, for instance, just to give you an idea, Charlie, 
4,000 meters altitude in the desert.  I had to bring water from 150 
kilometers, power from 200 kilometers.  But again, understanding there was 
an unpolished diamond, there was a mountain with $5 billion worth of gold 
and silver and I would have an 80 percent margin mining it.  

	So there was massive wealth there that had obviously to be engineered 
correctly -- I had to bring water, I had to bring power.  But there was 
enough wealth there to pay for the bills.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You also invested in Russian gold mines, didn’t you?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  You see, Brazil is not rich in gold mines, so between 
1980 and the year 2000, working for EBX, you know, the bankers, they told 
me you constantly told me you have to stay a pure play because it’s easy 
for the analysts to analyze your company.  They don’t want to mix with 
copper and other metals.  So it had to be maximum silver, so gold and 
silver.  

	So as I basically scanned all of South America I said, listen, I have 
to go where the mines are.  And then in the Kamchatka peninsula, the most 
eastern part of Russia, they have very rich mines because it’s part of the 
ring of fire.  So it went to Russia, to Kamchatka, and bought two mines 
there.  

	And after $30 million I realized that the Russians and the bears would 
not have me there.  They would have taken away from me.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  They were not going to tolerate you making a lot of 
money.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  No, no, they would not.  They would end up taking it 
away.  So this was my international experience.  Greece a little bit also 
the same.  I invested $330 million in Greece and ultimately the Greek 
government did not give me the environmental license to explore.  

	So that all in all there the year 2000 I said -- my success ratio in 
South America was 100 percent in the resource business, resource and 
logistics, because mining has a lot to do with logistics.  Because if you 
don’t...  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Tell us what you mean by "logistics." 

	EIKE BATISTA:  Logistics means if you build a mine in the middle of 
nowhere, you have to secure your water, you have to build your town, you 
have to have your power generation.  You think like a military operation.  
So this is why we developed the 360-degree way of thinking.  It’s the EBX 
model of doing business.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Tell me what the philosophy is to achieve the kind of 
success and wealth you’ve achieved.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  I think it’s -- we have, as I mentioned before, the 
360-degree approach to business which is, I think, today most entrepreneurs 
or CEOs, they’re good in some areas but fail eventually in the legal 
engineering or the fiscal engineering or the environmental engineering.  
There’s a whole rows of areas that a CEO.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  All the spokes in t 360 degrees.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes, yes, very much like -- this is an interesting 
chart to show you.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  The 360-degree approach.  Proven execution, capacity of 
EBX groups public and private companies.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.

	CHARLIE ROSE:  But also there is this idea, which you mentioned with 
respect to oil, you at every stage have gone out to find the best people 
and have been prepared to pay them and give them a participation.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Of my shares, of owner stock, which is very different 
also in the public markets.  Shares to my top guys come from my stock.  I 
don’t dilute my investors, because I love corridor management.  I see them 
every day.  If they make a mistake, it’s my fault, because...  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Because you chose them or...  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Because I chose them.  It won’t be diluted to a 
potential -- normally when people issue stock, company stock, it dilutes 
all shareholders.  In my case, the stock to my top people come from my own 
stock, my share of participation in the company.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  One of the people you brought in who now runs your oil 
exploration company was formerly head of exploration.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes, yes.  I think, Charlie...  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  So this was a man who knew everything there was to know 
about...  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  It’s a -- oil finding in the Brazilian basin and 
most basins, is a multidisciplinary science.  So you need a lot of people -
- reservoir engineers, statisticians, engineers, engineers, and geologists, 
of course.  

	And what I have learned in the 30 years is to -- I read people better 
than I read books.  So when a technical guy tells me what he has to show, 
because I put the billion three dollars to invest because of what the team 
showed me that what we potential could do, you know?  They showed me what 
the hit ratios were, that I eventually could have a 60 percent hit ratio, 
success ratio.  

	If I spend $1 billion dollars, at least $600 million of the billion 
would potentially find wealth.  As of today, we have had 100 percent 
success.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  One-hundred percent?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  Every well was a hit.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Every well of...  

	EIKE BATISTA:  That we drilled since August of last year was a hilt.  
We found massive oil reserves already, 100 percent hit ratio.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  What do you think your net worth could become in the 
next ten years?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  $100 billion.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You think so?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  $100 billion?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  What can I say?  I’m lucky to be...  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  That makes you the richest man in the world.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  I don’t know.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  The richest person, unless they do something to double 
what they have.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  What is important, Charlie, is that Brazil is the 
highway for that, you see?  Brazil has today the right of law, you know, 
the jurisdiction is great.  You know, if you have an asset, the asset is 
protected.

	You have pools of talent because Brazil through these government -- 
before government-controlled company, Petrobras, Telebras, Electrobras, 
they have formed incredible talent pools that we have known how to grab to 
put into our structures.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You have an interesting idea also about government and 
government’s role in its relationship to the private sector.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  I think, you know, a project of this size always 
requires -- you need the concessions of the government, concessions that 
are auctioned out, and you participate and you win them.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  The government also has their own share.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Oh, yes.  The government, most parts in the world the 
largest shareholder anyway in this wealth-creation process.  But there’s 
the environmental piece which you’re talking to government offices 
concerning environmental issues.  

	We, again, on the 360-degree approach, we take care of social and 
environmental issues right from the beginning, not after when you start 
making profit.  You have to show that you are a good and a modern corporate 
citizen, especially when you talk about these infrastructure and projects 
that start from zero, because this is -- these are things where there was 
nothing before.  

	When we build a port, I’m building a port north of Rio in the middle 
of nowhere.  There was nothing before.  So you conceive a super-port iron 
ore other and soybeans to China, which is Brazil’s major outlet.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  It’s the largest market for Brazilian iron.’ 

	EIKE BATISTA:  Already.  Not only iron.  China has already surpassed 
the U.S. as our largest trading partner.  Did you know?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  I did know that.  So what’s the impact of that, China 
becoming a huge market and a huge demand for energy, for oil, for iron, 
because of all the building they’re doing?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  It’s the highway between Brazil and China that the 
world should start paying attention to, because it’s fabulous.  Most things 
that the Chinese need we have in abundance and we can export, and there’s 
an entrance market on the other side which is -- because what does the 
world -- in an economy, you need pent-up demand.  China has an endless 
pent-up demand for these products, oil, food and iron ore.  These are major 
Brazilian...  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  And they just made a $10 billion loan to Petrobras, the 
Brazilian oil company.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  The Chinese were bringing the Chinese steel mill to 
build a $5 billion investment in our super-port in Brazil.  So the Chinese 
are coming to Brazil also to -- because they found out that it’s cheaper to 
produce steel in Brazil than it is in China.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Do we have anything to fear from this or should we

welcome this?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  I think the world should welcome it, because it’s a 
market that only Brazil can attempt, you know, can supply.  Only Brazil 
has...  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  China’s now the largest market for cars.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  But, you know, cars, I think the world is getting 
very much -- we’re walking into protectionist phase in the world, aren’t 
we?  It’s all about job preservation.  

	So, for instance, in the oil business, Brazil has this new regulation 
that you have to have 75 percent of Brazilian content to be able to explore 
the oil.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Talk to us about Brazil.  Brazil was the last -- one of 
the last countries to fill the economic -- to feel the economic recession, 
and one of the first to come out of it.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  What’s going on down there?  Is it simply because of 
the demand for commodities or is it something else?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  No, I think, as I said before, thank god Fernando 
Enrique, our former president during his eight-year tenure, he repaired 
Brazil.  We did our TARP in 1996.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Right.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  The banks have adult supervision.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Right.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  So our banks in Brazil, they literally had profits, 
they’re totally underleveraged.  I’m a businessman that has lived in Brazil 
as a country that lived from hand to mouth.  Today, you know, connected to 
the world’s markets, we have access to capital.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  And it has a history inflation too. 

	EIKE BATISTA:  That was corrected during Fernando Enrique’s tenure, 
his zero inflation program.  And then Lula came in 2002, he simply -- the 
main thing Lula did was respect the rule of law, respect the contracts.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Because of its background, when Lula came in many 
people expected him to be a different president than he was 

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  He said it himself, he laughs about it, the best 
thing I did was I changed.  He changed.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  And how did he change, and who is responsible for his 
revolution?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  By electing Jose Alencar, his vice president.  He’s a 
businessman, a very successful businessman in the textile industry.  When 
he brought him along to be his vice president, with that move he brought 
all the rest of the society together to win the elections.  

	And he realized that it’s a mix of -- you know, you have to have 
social policies, of course, but let businessmen run the -- let 
entrepreneurs run our country.  He understood that finally, because he -- 
we needed to exorcise the left.  

	Every South American country -- I mean, look at the history maybe of 
Spain with Felipe Gonzalez, the left party -- other neighbors, for 
instance, Venezuela went to Chavez, populism, Argentina went to populism.  
Thank god we got -- and Lula says it himself.  Thank god I wasn’t elected 
before, you know.  Thank god he only came into power in 2002.  He jokes 
about it when he speaks about this.  

	So coming in 2002 with his change in accepting the free enterprise as 
part of building a nation, that was the big change for the country.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  What do you think of the United States economic future 
in this new world economic order?

	EIKE BATISTA:  As it looks from the outside, I see very much gridlock 
here, political gridlock.  I think America only performed well when there 
big national projects like the construction of the highways.

	You have to start thinking out of the box.  Democracy, you know, I 
believe in democracy, but let me tell you something that few people 
realize.  In Brazil, our president has presidential decrees law that allow 
him to implement emergency measures for six months.  

	That’s exactly what he did when the world went into trouble in 2008, 
you know, allowing the banks to put liquidity into the system.  And that’s 
why Brazil came out so much faster than everybody else.

	And these presidential MPs, as we call them, they are enforced for six 
months.  And obviously if they work, Congress approves them automatically.  
So we have a dictatorial -- a very powerful presidential system in Brazil, 
though being a democracy.

	It’s as if Obama would have had the right to push through -- I think 
he can only go to war, right?

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Well, he should ask permission of Congress to go to 
war.  But it’s been challenged, and people, when they define what the 
president is doing, it becomes murky.

	EIKE BATISTA:  So Paulson, if you hear what he says is he didn’t have 
the power to bail out Lehman.

	CHARLIE ROSE:  That is in fact what he says.

	EIKE BATISTA:  So Brazil -- no, Brazil, interesting...

	CHARLIE ROSE:  In Brazil the power would have been there.

	EIKE BATISTA:  There’s another system in Brazil, because we still have 
big public banks.  The Brazilian Development Bank is the world’s largest 
development bank.  They deployed $100 billion in projects.

	CHARLIE ROSE:  What’s the level of foreign investment in Brazil today?

	EIKE BATISTA:  Every year?

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Yes.



	EIKE BATISTA:  Well, 2009 I think was $30 billion.  It’s not big if 
you’re compared to China, but these numbers are going to be -- I mean, 
they’re -- I see this year at least $50.  It’s increasing.

	CHARLIE ROSE:  If China doesn’t let its currency appreciate, what are 
the implications of that.

	EIKE BATISTA:  Well, China -- I’ve been to China many times in the 
last three years, and beware.  Whatever the Chinese produce, beware, 
because they’re going to throw it at you with quality and low prices.

	So in the case of Brazil it’s a great joint venture because they need 
so many products that they don’t have.  We have things that they don’t 
have.

	CHARLIE ROSE:  But mainly commodities.

	EIKE BATISTA:  Commodities, yes.  It’s very difficult for Brazil to 
sell.  Even aircraft, I don’t know if you know...

	CHARLIE ROSE:  It’s a very successful story now.

	EIKE BATISTA:  In Brazil.

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Yes.

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes, but see in China now they have an identical 
copy...

	CHARLIE ROSE:  So they’re not selling their plane to the Chinese.

	EIKE BATISTA:  No.  So the Chinese will have their own planes.  They 
will have copied the Brazilian plane.  China, you have to -- my view of 
China is if you believe in history, I think by 800 after Christ they had 
half of the world’s GDP.  Charlie, I think in the next 20, 30 years they’re 
back to the 50 percent of the world’s GDP.

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Do you, really?

	EIKE BATISTA:  I really believe so.

	CHARLIE ROSE:  They will be by the year 20- what the world’s largest 
economy, not per capita but in aggregate, in 15, 20 years the world’s 
largest economy?
	
	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  They execute to well.  They are forming PhD’s, 
the material science.  They’re putting patents out in all different 
sciences.  It’s fascinating.  I’ve been visiting car manufacturers and 
steel plants, and railway car factories.  They have the CNR, China National 
Rail -- in eight days they produce everything Brazil needs for a whole 
year.  It’s just so gigantic.

	CHARLIE ROSE:  What’s interesting about Brazil, too, and Lula, he made 
a trip to Central America.  Brazil seems to, with its economic success, 
really want to say we are first among equals in Latin America.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes, yes.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Yes?  We are the most important player in this 
continent.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  I think people, Brazil is liked.  You know, we’re good 
soccer players.  We have immense good will.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You are enormously proud about it, feel great pride 
about soccer and the World Cup coming.   

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  And great pride about the Olympics coming.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes, Olympics are a big change.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  And what do you want to make Rio become?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Well, I’m investing -- self-esteem was something we had 
lost in Brazil and Rio, specifically Rio.  The banking move to Sao Paulo, 
many companies left Rio and, as you probably know, Rio used to be the 
capital of Brazil in the ‘60s that we lost to Brasilia.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Right.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Without any compensation.  Germany moved their capital 
from Bonn to Berlin, and Bonn got many tens of billions of dollars or Euros 
as compensation.  Rio never got anything.  So I think Olympics is a little 
bit, hey, it’s payback time.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  And you’re restoring the Hotel Gloria?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes, restoring the Gloria, a nice traditional old hotel 
built in 1922.  So we’re restoring how it was in 1922.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You’re also rebuilding the port.

	EIKE BATISTA:  We’re building a brand new super-port.  
	
	CHARLIE ROSE:  Right.

	EIKE BATISTA:  We are also cleaning the lake in Rio de Janeiro, a nice 
downtown lake.

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Let me come back to America.  You mentioned some of the 
political gridlock we have.  What else?  When you look at our future, what 
is it that concerns you and what is it that encourages you about our 
future?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  I think, you know, if I compare America with Brazil, 
America and Europe, you are now heavily indebted like we were before.  Now, 
I mean, you know, if you look at China -- I don’t know the Indian my so 
well, but between China and Brazil, we have pent up demand.  We’re not 
indebted at all.  Only 3.5 percent of our GDP is in mortgages.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  So what are the consequences for the United States of 
that?  That we have?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Well, you have to put your...  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  A certain austerity?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes, you have to be a little bit more Spartan for a 
while.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  And what about Europe?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  And I think there’s a massive shifting of wealth.  You 
know, between America and Europe to the emerging markets, either through 
currency appreciation, because Brazil’s self-sufficient in everything.  

	Brazil’s currency is the store value, you know, probably oil is or 
gold for some.  But oil is used and currencies -- you know, how do you 
value the euro or the rating agencies who -- the Greek situation is known 
for how many years?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  A huge debt problem.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  The rating agencies, Charlie, they used to put Brazil 
in the same league as Nigeria.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You have an interesting thing you’ve said about Dubai.  
I mean, you basically you said -- well, you tell me what you said about 
Dubai, because basically you said they made investments at a boom time that 
they would not have been successful in normal times, and when tough times 
come, it’s heading for the door.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  It’s all about, you know, I think world in the 
last, or America in the last 20 years has focused too much towards banking 
and financing engineering, you know?  Best students leaving university went 
to banks or to law firms, right?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Right.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Where are the engineers?  America, you should be 
driving, today from my point of view, from what I understand, what 
technology there is, you should be driving electrical cars, and you’re not.  

	(LAUGHTER)

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Well, yes but are you?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  No, no.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  But you’re saying because of our consumption here in 
this country and because we’re addicted to oil in this country.  But you’re 
in the oil business, which brings me to another point.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  China is such a big consumer, Charlie.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Yes, but they are also hugely invested in trying to 
find solar.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Absolutely.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Windmills.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  They’re looking for alternative sources as they 
continue their economic boom, which is dependent now on coal.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  But I make a quantitative -- if you -- a billion people 
or more walking into the consumer class, the resources are not there.  
Solar energy, wind power, they’re just part of this equation.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  So you’re saying to be in the oil business is going to 
be a good business for a long time.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes, at least for the next ten years.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  That’s good enough for you because you operate in ten-
year cycles.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Is it possible that ten years from now you’ll say I’m 
out of the oil business?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Our structures have become so big that now I’m part of 
Brazil, you know?  Politically I have to operate in a different way.  I’m 
part of the establishment, so nationalistic feelings have arisen in the 
last couple years, resources have become strategic pieces of political 
thinking.  It’s not so simple.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Tell me how competitive you think you are.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Very.  I’m very competitive.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  About everything, to win?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  I like a challenge.  But I don’t -- I don’t challenge -
- I have to know that I can perform, you know?  I don’t do just anything.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Because part of your pride in Rio is that you want to 
beat the hell out of Sao Paulo, yes?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Yes.  

	(LAUGHTER)

	CHARLIE ROSE:  What is that about?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  It’s about -- people from Sao Paulo are called 
Paulistas, and they’re much more diligent when they build a restaurant.  
They like quality.  So I wanted to -- by investing heavily in Rio.  I have 
a restaurant.  I want to do it with quality.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Is it a Chinese restaurant?  

	EIKE BATISTA:  It’s a Chinese restaurant, Chinese fusion, like Mr. 
Chow.  It’s a chef from Mr. Chow in New York, my partner, Mr. Lam.  So 
built quality things in Rio that will last for 50, 100 years, quality, 
because Rio’s mentality was tropical, short-minded, and let’s see if I make 
money for years.

	You don’t build a nice restaurant if you think you’re going to have a 
return in three years.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You have not always been on the mark, the mistakes 
you’ve made.  The jeep business, you didn’t do so well in the jeep 
business.  

	(LAUGHTER)

	EIKE BATISTA:  No, listen, I think every silly man likes to build his 
own car, so I tried to build my own car.  I failed.  But a good experience, 
very good experience.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  You also tried to get into the beer business.  Didn’t 
work out too well, either, did it?  

	(LAUGHTER)

	EIKE BATISTA:  No, no.  Beer business -- what else would you have?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Well, the luxury business, a perfume.  You didn’t do so 
well in that.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  No.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  So what does this say?  How do you -- so you come off 
hugely successful in oil, iron, but not so good with cars, jeeps perfumes.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  This is why you go back to our 360 degree of thinking 
that you get perfection.  This is what the learning curve -- that’s why 
today that’s how we operate.  And I think failure to close a business in 
the right way is something you have to do, you know?  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  But not only that, your philosophy is don’t fall in 
love with your business.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Absolutely.  

	CHARLIE ROSE:  Don’t fall in love with it.  

	EIKE BATISTA:  Repositioning speed is something very strong in the 
group.  We don’t mind -- sometimes you see companies have the border proof 
$100 million, $20 million and then they see they’re going the wrong 
direction and then spend the other $80 million.  We stop.  This is stop 
loss.